The big bang suggests that the universe is finite, forever expanding. Is there any evidence that the rate of expansion is slowing down? If so, could the expansion eventually go to zero and reverse itself due to gravity, causing everything to collapse back together into an minuscule black hole that eventually explodes again?
0
The Big Bang And Collapse
Started by
Kung-Fu Barbie
, Feb 22 2008 04:15 PM
11 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 25 February 2008 - 01:14 AM
I think that people originally thought this to be possible, but if you're interested in this, definitely read what astronomers have to say about "dark energy".... to give you the bottom line.... scientists think that this is a form of energy that is opposed to gravity that is now pushing the universe apart faster and faster as opposed to gravity pulling everything crashing in on itself... I took a university course that covered this topic in pretty good detail, so ask away..... I'll spare you the page-long write-up 
#3
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Posted 25 February 2008 - 04:12 AM
Interesting. Ages ago, when I was in school, we talked about the big bang and that theory. Now if the universe being pushed apart, how will this affect us?
#4
Posted 25 February 2008 - 05:39 AM
well... if scientists are correct in this new-ish theory... the universe will just continue to expand and expand until it is in it's lowest energy state, which would have everything infinitly distant from everything else. Gravity does have an effect on the universe obviously but it is now slowly being beaten out on the grand scale by something the scientists like to call "dark energy". Of course we won't just start floating around because gravitation is relative and we're still standing a huge mass of gravity-inducing Earth... but in the grand form of the universe everything is spreading out. And the part that suggests that things will continue to move away from us is that everything is accelerating away from us. I don't know if you've ever talked about "redshift" and blueshift before, but the super-quick crash course is this.... when you look at something through a telescope and analyze the light spectrum that it emits... if the lines that show up on the spectrum are shifted towards the red light region, than that object is moving away from the observer. You can tell it has shifted by comparing the spectral lines to other stars and even sample spectra we have created here on Earth. This is important because astronomers are finding that EVERY single star or galaxy that we view in extreme ranges are moving away from us at incredible speeds.
At one time we thought it possible for everything to expand and then collapse, but that is only if you think of the universe as a growing 3D ball or something.
Imagine the universe like this: it's hard to do....
Imagine you have a balloon, and you begin to blow up the balloon, you'd expect the analogy to be that the increasing volume of the balloon represents the universe, this is incorrect. The actual thin rubber balloon stretching is what our universe is like... This is hard to imagine because it's like trying to imagine putting a 2 dimensional object into a 4 dimensional space and our brains really have no grasp of that. So as the universe expands as the SURFACE of the balloon, everything begins to stretch and spread out.
I realize I kind of got off topic.... but I could discuss stuff like this for hours... it's sad but true.
As for affecting us.... it really won't, except for in the far future if we venture to other planets, it will take longer to get there, as the distance is constantly increasing at large fractions of the speed of light. It's strange to think about, that out there at this second as you're reading this.... entire galaxies are moving away from us at blinding rates.
At one time we thought it possible for everything to expand and then collapse, but that is only if you think of the universe as a growing 3D ball or something.
Imagine the universe like this: it's hard to do....
Imagine you have a balloon, and you begin to blow up the balloon, you'd expect the analogy to be that the increasing volume of the balloon represents the universe, this is incorrect. The actual thin rubber balloon stretching is what our universe is like... This is hard to imagine because it's like trying to imagine putting a 2 dimensional object into a 4 dimensional space and our brains really have no grasp of that. So as the universe expands as the SURFACE of the balloon, everything begins to stretch and spread out.
I realize I kind of got off topic.... but I could discuss stuff like this for hours... it's sad but true.
As for affecting us.... it really won't, except for in the far future if we venture to other planets, it will take longer to get there, as the distance is constantly increasing at large fractions of the speed of light. It's strange to think about, that out there at this second as you're reading this.... entire galaxies are moving away from us at blinding rates.
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Posted 26 February 2008 - 06:59 AM
Mathieu, on Feb 24 2008, 11:39 PM, said:
well... if scientists are correct in this new-ish theory... the universe will just continue to expand and expand until it is in it's lowest energy state, which would have everything infinitly distant from everything else. Gravity does have an effect on the universe obviously but it is now slowly being beaten out on the grand scale by something the scientists like to call "dark energy". Of course we won't just start floating around because gravitation is relative and we're still standing a huge mass of gravity-inducing Earth... but in the grand form of the universe everything is spreading out. And the part that suggests that things will continue to move away from us is that everything is accelerating away from us. I don't know if you've ever talked about "redshift" and blueshift before, but the super-quick crash course is this.... when you look at something through a telescope and analyze the light spectrum that it emits... if the lines that show up on the spectrum are shifted towards the red light region, than that object is moving away from the observer. You can tell it has shifted by comparing the spectral lines to other stars and even sample spectra we have created here on Earth. This is important because astronomers are finding that EVERY single star or galaxy that we view in extreme ranges are moving away from us at incredible speeds.
At one time we thought it possible for everything to expand and then collapse, but that is only if you think of the universe as a growing 3D ball or something.
Imagine the universe like this: it's hard to do....
Imagine you have a balloon, and you begin to blow up the balloon, you'd expect the analogy to be that the increasing volume of the balloon represents the universe, this is incorrect. The actual thin rubber balloon stretching is what our universe is like... This is hard to imagine because it's like trying to imagine putting a 2 dimensional object into a 4 dimensional space and our brains really have no grasp of that. So as the universe expands as the SURFACE of the balloon, everything begins to stretch and spread out.
I realize I kind of got off topic.... but I could discuss stuff like this for hours... it's sad but true.
As for affecting us.... it really won't, except for in the far future if we venture to other planets, it will take longer to get there, as the distance is constantly increasing at large fractions of the speed of light. It's strange to think about, that out there at this second as you're reading this.... entire galaxies are moving away from us at blinding rates.
At one time we thought it possible for everything to expand and then collapse, but that is only if you think of the universe as a growing 3D ball or something.
Imagine the universe like this: it's hard to do....
Imagine you have a balloon, and you begin to blow up the balloon, you'd expect the analogy to be that the increasing volume of the balloon represents the universe, this is incorrect. The actual thin rubber balloon stretching is what our universe is like... This is hard to imagine because it's like trying to imagine putting a 2 dimensional object into a 4 dimensional space and our brains really have no grasp of that. So as the universe expands as the SURFACE of the balloon, everything begins to stretch and spread out.
I realize I kind of got off topic.... but I could discuss stuff like this for hours... it's sad but true.
As for affecting us.... it really won't, except for in the far future if we venture to other planets, it will take longer to get there, as the distance is constantly increasing at large fractions of the speed of light. It's strange to think about, that out there at this second as you're reading this.... entire galaxies are moving away from us at blinding rates.
#6
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Posted 26 February 2008 - 05:42 PM
Dark Energy = Dark Matter
We have found a few peices of this stuff.. By a few "peices" i mean under 1000 molecules of it. It resonates a negative (push) graviational feild in dense numbers. The full theory is eventually as galaxies merge together and become super clusters, they will than have the gravitational force to offset this.
Nasa's (and several other scientists) are playing around with Dark Matter drives, which although could be exteremly dangerous would provide us with a means of inter-solar (or if built well enough close instance interstellar) travel. Providing we do not manage to actually create "warp" technology (see Star Trek) only reason I bring this up, is because its a actually a working theory and based on our current understanding of light, speed, and how projections work is possible but thats an entirely other long ass topic.
We have found a few peices of this stuff.. By a few "peices" i mean under 1000 molecules of it. It resonates a negative (push) graviational feild in dense numbers. The full theory is eventually as galaxies merge together and become super clusters, they will than have the gravitational force to offset this.
Nasa's (and several other scientists) are playing around with Dark Matter drives, which although could be exteremly dangerous would provide us with a means of inter-solar (or if built well enough close instance interstellar) travel. Providing we do not manage to actually create "warp" technology (see Star Trek) only reason I bring this up, is because its a actually a working theory and based on our current understanding of light, speed, and how projections work is possible but thats an entirely other long ass topic.
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#8
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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:40 AM
Mathieu, on Feb 26 2008, 07:23 PM, said:
I'm sorry to be a stickler..... but dark energy and dark matter is definitely not the same thing. sorry man. (well.... I'm not really)
1) "Dark Energy" = Theory
2) Dark Matter = Fact
3) All Matter is energy
Once there are actual facts and real proof regarding "dark energy", than by all means you can make corrections to my statements
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#9
Posted 27 February 2008 - 05:45 AM
o.k. ..... but if I turn a tennis ball into pure energy.... it doesn't mean it's dark energy.....
Dark matter is just any matter we currently have no way of seeing... as far was we know... all of that unaccounted-for mass in the universe could be made up of floating elephants wearing gas masks and high heels, (of course it's not and it's probably really just dead stars that don't emit light and other random heavy particles from somewhere).... if you convert dark matter into energy... it doesn't become dark energy... it would just be photons and radiation.
So.... I guess we can agree to disagree on this one... but I'm still not seeing dark matter and dark energy as being the same thing.
And as for proof... well the fact that the entire universe is accelerating away from itself because of some unidentified energy source is proof enough for me... we may not know what exactly causes the force.... but that doesn't mean there isn't a force....
Maybe dark energy is sort of like gravity... I've heard a few different theories as to what gravity actually IS.... I've heard some scientists talk about gravitons... little weird shaped things that influence mass.... and I've also heard that gravity is a force without form and that the curvature of space and time IS gravity, and that there's no actual physical form to it..... I'm looking forward to the day that people figure all this out.
Dark matter is just any matter we currently have no way of seeing... as far was we know... all of that unaccounted-for mass in the universe could be made up of floating elephants wearing gas masks and high heels, (of course it's not and it's probably really just dead stars that don't emit light and other random heavy particles from somewhere).... if you convert dark matter into energy... it doesn't become dark energy... it would just be photons and radiation.
So.... I guess we can agree to disagree on this one... but I'm still not seeing dark matter and dark energy as being the same thing.
And as for proof... well the fact that the entire universe is accelerating away from itself because of some unidentified energy source is proof enough for me... we may not know what exactly causes the force.... but that doesn't mean there isn't a force....
Maybe dark energy is sort of like gravity... I've heard a few different theories as to what gravity actually IS.... I've heard some scientists talk about gravitons... little weird shaped things that influence mass.... and I've also heard that gravity is a force without form and that the curvature of space and time IS gravity, and that there's no actual physical form to it..... I'm looking forward to the day that people figure all this out.
#10
Posted 07 July 2008 - 05:23 AM
Kung-Fu Barbie, on Feb 22 2008, 11:15 AM, said:
The big bang suggests that the universe is finite, forever expanding. Is there any evidence that the rate of expansion is slowing down? If so, could the expansion eventually go to zero and reverse itself due to gravity, causing everything to collapse back together into an minuscule black hole that eventually explodes again?
I know nothing about the big bang, but I have a friend who did a presentation in class about it.
#12
Posted 23 November 2009 - 07:41 PM
Well always good to try and figure things out.. but like a book i once read. .. .What if our universe is in a snow glob like object on someone’s desk, and that persons universe in a snow globe like object on someone else’s desk and so on and so on.. what we perceive as constant and tangible is really just a figment of the reality that we think is reality !!
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